sorry for the long post again, but there's no other way to respond to everyone
PaddieOkay I gotta be honest, calling wall-bugging a skill based mechanic is a big stretch. Half the skill of it is simply knowing where the bug can be used. Speedshotting requires impeccable timing with your rocket to pull off, along with Ctapping. Both give advantages while legitimately being harder to do and requiring a degree skill and there is progression to how good you can get with each mechanic.
speedshotting isn't that hard, even for newer players, and is honestly comparable to wallbugs as far as reliability and skill required go. there is most definitely a progression of skill when it comes to wallbugging.
PaddieFloating on invisible walls is also not even close to the same thing as hiding on a physical prop because there is absolutely zero physical indicator you could be there or should be there..
there are wallbugs that you can do on actual physical walls and there are hiding spots that basically make you look like you're floating in the air. im not sure what you're trying to get at here.
PaddieIt just adds nothing to the game but a tool for people to get easy forces or kills in a manner that is not conducive to competitive play simply because of how random it is. Which walls are we supposed to check? Are we supposed to go into a map editor to find where these spots exist or just kinda aimlessly jump against them until we find one? Again "hiding spots" are different because there is a visual indicator that someone could be there, and it makes logical sense in the game world. (edit: I was corrected a bit on the nature of finding these spots but I do think this is still overall applicable)
many hiding spots have 0 visual indicators. 95% of wallbugs can be identified by just looking up when going through a choke. you're blowing the practicality of wallbugs way out of proportion.
PaddieAlso as a side-note it's really egregious to say that somehow it's no big deal because in actuality the floating soldier is really easy to kill. That's simply not true, any invite team with sense would simply pounce on that scout wasting time shooting the floating soldier and kill him and get the force. You see teams like Froyo do this all the time even when there isn't a soldier floating in the sky. The scout is taking time to clear traps for his team? Jump on his head and kill him. The push is now stuffed.
this is a decent point, but is honestly not how it works out in practice. as someone who has used wallbugs in a competitive setting a lot, i can say for certain that i've never been spotted in a wallbug and then went on to do something useful and not feed. the only way that people will understand this point is to actually play against wallbuggers. i could easily go through each possible scenario and show how a team would deal with it, but i dont want to spam this thread any more than i already am. if you happened to believe me in that a spotted wallbugger is useless, it then just becomes a job of spotting him, which is quite easy (peek the choke and look up, have your flank peek, etc.)
Jynxiiyes, floating in the skybox on an invisible wall is 100% the same thing as a ctap or speedshot!!
there are strategies to mitigate the use of wallbugs. making all clip brushes orthogonal is a big one, and depending on how creative the mapmaker gets there are a bunch of other possibilities.
i bolded that section because i wrote a nerd essay that most people probably wouldn't read. if they took one thing from that section, i wanted it to be that. don't read too much into it bud.
you seem very confused about how wallbugs would work in-game, so you can start by watching this video that already was posted earlier on the thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o50bA8wLTjw. you might notice that a majority of the useful wallbug spots are on a player clipping brush and not an actual wall, meaning you would in fact not be able to jump off of it.
if you can't mentally register that there is literally a player floating in the air above you while checking for sticks, the problem might be you, not the wallbugger.